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Can we haz free respecs for people who skilled into ADS?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
DUST Fiend 16842	Posted - 2015.05.06 06:23:00 - [1] - Quote I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
DUST Fiend 16842	Posted - 2015.05.06 07:21:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out. Honestly I feel that AV is going to need a buff, I just don't see how anyone can suggest reasonable buffs / changes without these hulls in the game. It would be really awesome if the Amarr / Minmatar placeholders could go in at the same time so we have every vehicle, in game, to test. I know that's asking too much but it's the bottom line if we are EVER going to come to some kind of stability between AV and Vehicles. I think AV is close to being in a good spot, though without some way to slow down tanks, convoys will always be an issue. Depending on the strength of proto ADSs, there may need to be a slight damage buff across the board for AV, but it's difficult to say. A slight buff to maximum elevation of HAVs top small turret could help curb ADS dominance of non redline rail tanks. Right now it's starting to feel like vehicles are their own best counter and I personally like it that way. A single well fit AV should rarely be an immediate threat to a well fit vehicle, but if the vehicle lingers, or if support comes along, then the tables should flip. If you don't feel this to be true, then ISK cost needs to be looked at. We can't have it both ways. Either ISK is a factor, or it isn't. Either you shell out the big money to gain a noticeable impact on the fight, or you pay the same as everyone else for expendable throw away toys. That's your call, but without having all the vehicles in game we're just going to keep circling the drain on this subject like we have been for the past 3 years now. "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
DUST Fiend 16842	Posted - 2015.05.06 07:46:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I actually think we just need to tailor the swarms a bit (lock on and missile travel distance), buff the DS and ADS until they are fairly equal. I hope the small blaster may become a viable choice. LAVs are getting a fitting buff and an extra slot. I'm still a fan of faster swarms with less of a curve (chance to overshoot), shorter flight time and higher damage, but I imagine an effort like that would take way too much. Having an indicator that swarms are following you would be nice at least. As for small blasters, I've said this since the day ADS was introduced, and I will keep on saying it. Unless a proper first person camera is implemented, one that follows the exact same swivel that the turret currently follows, blasters will never be a reliable front gun an ADS. Without being able to actually see what you're shooting at, you're just playing the guessing game. And let's face it, most pilots would very likely crash or become target fixated and get killed as they zone out trying to hunt down that one player. Lacking that level of control has always been a huge pain with flying ADS. At the very least though they may make ok side guns, but unless there's a serious buff to survivability with PRO ships, I think it will remain a novelty. No pilot wants to just hover around waiting to be blasted by all manner of AV while their gunner tries to get some kills, so it'll probably end up as another redline enforcer as far as dropships are concerned. Since the dropship lacks the padding to take a few hits, and the blaster lacks the punch vs vehicles, it leaves blaster dropships in a weird place no matter what kind of buffs you give the blaster. Now, if we could get logi ships back.... "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
DUST Fiend 16842	Posted - 2015.05.06 08:18:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I actually think we just need to tailor the swarms a bit (lock on and missile travel distance), buff the DS and ADS until they are fairly equal. I hope the small blaster may become a viable choice. LAVs are getting a fitting buff and an extra slot. I'm still a fan of faster swarms with less of a curve (chance to overshoot), shorter flight time and higher damage, but I imagine an effort like that would take way too much. Having an indicator that swarms are following you would be nice at least. As for small blasters, I've said this since the day ADS was introduced, and I will keep on saying it. Unless a proper first person camera is implemented, one that follows the exact same swivel that the turret currently follows, blasters will never be a reliable front gun an ADS. Without being able to actually see what you're shooting at, you're just playing the guessing game. And let's face it, most pilots would very likely crash or become target fixated and get killed as they zone out trying to hunt down that one player. Lacking that level of control has always been a huge pain with flying ADS. At the very least though they may make ok side guns, but unless there's a serious buff to survivability with PRO ships, I think it will remain a novelty. No pilot wants to just hover around waiting to be blasted by all manner of AV while their gunner tries to get some kills, so it'll probably end up as another redline enforcer as far as dropships are concerned. Since the dropship lacks the padding to take a few hits, and the blaster lacks the punch vs vehicles, it leaves blaster dropships in a weird place no matter what kind of buffs you give the blaster. Now, if we could get logi ships back.... Well, I do want ADSs to be tankhunters with gunners, and DS's to be more durable (maybe even slower), able to react to infantry on the ground if equipped and with gunners. They should be one counter to invincigars I personally hate the idea of MLT vehicles, and standard dropships in general, but thats just me. Without the mobility, standard dropships are still far too flimsy to hold up to sustained fire. Perhaps PRO basic ships will help, but mobility is everything. Give them too much tank and they become invincible suicide machines against ADS, with no real role outside of kill platform. Buff their mobility and the ADS loses its edge because the front turret isnt worth as much as all that survivability. Side guns on ADS seem more suited to dog fights because the cut to survivability and hike in cost and effort to be effecient dont lend well to being down near the ground, and thus the AV. Im just curious to see how it all pans out, but I can tell you that even slower dropships aren't going to make anyone but AV happy lol. The only reason good pilots can make flying work is because of the ability to interupt sustained DPS by relocating / dodging. Unless you literally make them as durable as HAVs I doubt youll ever see a slow tanked dropship that doesn't go down in flames before it can escape AV range Small rails could probably use a 10% reduction in efficiency vs shields though, right now they absolutely wreck shields. "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
DUST Fiend 16847	Posted - 2015.05.06 16:20:00 - [5] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'll wait another 17 months for ADV / PRO LAVs and DSs before I pass judgement, but it takes a kind of "perfect storm" of events to happen in your favor if you plan to slay infantry in any noticeable amount. Otherwise your best bet is providing support fire on vehicles and never getting close to the ground. Let's do something for them instead, since we now have shown that HAVs can be strong (maybe too strong), we can figure them out. Honestly I feel that AV is going to need a buff, I just don't see how anyone can suggest reasonable buffs / changes without these hulls in the game. It would be really awesome if the Amarr / Minmatar placeholders could go in at the same time so we have every vehicle, in game, to test. I know that's asking too much but it's the bottom line if we are EVER going to come to some kind of stability between AV and Vehicles. I think AV is close to being in a good spot, though without some way to slow down tanks, convoys will always be an issue. Depending on the strength of proto ADSs, there may need to be a slight damage buff across the board for AV, but it's difficult to say. A slight buff to maximum elevation of HAVs top small turret could help curb ADS dominance of non redline rail tanks. Right now it's starting to feel like vehicles are their own best counter and I personally like it that way. A single well fit AV should rarely be an immediate threat to a well fit vehicle, but if the vehicle lingers, or if support comes along, then the tables should flip. If you don't feel this to be true, then ISK cost needs to be looked at. We can't have it both ways. Either ISK is a factor, or it isn't. Either you shell out the big money to gain a noticeable impact on the fight, or you pay the same as everyone else for expendable throw away toys. That's your call, but without having all the vehicles in game we're just going to keep circling the drain on this subject like we have been for the past 3 years now. AV should not be based on a single person being able to solo a tank. Please move on already. You don't read very often, do you? "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
DUST Fiend 16847	Posted - 2015.05.06 17:50:00 - [6] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: TheD1CK wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Respec thread number #1087. AND a sharp poke to those people who claimed that these respec threads will end once we get respecs at will / unlimited respecs. ^^ Still got it going on ^^ Regarding ADS.. I think 'Talos' makes the best comments.. it is situational. In PC ADS still turns the tide of battle and is a force to be reckoned with while attacking/defending objectives But there are times where an AV nest is covering that objective and your ADS becomes a WP farm for AV.. So it's a matter of knowing when to, and when not to use an ADS.. mercs just can't accept that I am an average pilot (that's being being nice about it) 80% of my deaths in ADS are caused by me But I can still clear area's and keep my ship alive when the situation is clear of AV spam.. For those QQing the SP investment.. that's all optional, just like infantry's reload/ammo/sharpshooter/profiency/fitting op You can fit a viable ADS for about 3mil SP, sure you are lacking some bonuses, but to say it does not work is BS Public matches are no place for an ADS anymore, way too many blueberries dedicate to WP farming off AV And there is a high chance of cowardly tankers sniping, or a maxed railbus making a quick end to you.. I spent a lot of time watching the patterns of good pilots manboar/axlkazik/denchlad/parth0k/derrith/jamaican/derpty/diego And you can learn a lot just by seeing how they react to certain situations in battle... Thats only half of it though, seeing what you need to do only gets you so far.. knowledge is power And for that I thank 'Derrith Erador' for taking the time to squad with a blueberry pilot and offer great input - such as your situational awareness, knowing where the AV is before they hit you - when outnumberd by AV trying to be a hero will cost you an ADS - timing your attacks based on how how many rounds the AV is firing at you (I don't do him justice so I'll stfu, but he used small words and crayons and highlighted a lot of good info) Since then I actually hold some chance when in flight and engaging AV... TL;DR = Pay some attention, don't expect game mechanics to win battles for you ^ seems ironic when the rapid reload swarmando's have it handed to them Also to add, you have to know when to recall your ADS. If AV is dominating the map, just put it away. Your biggest tactical asset is the ability to select which areas to target and (provided you escape) which ones to avoid. And thanks for pointing out PC and Pubs require very different flying styles. What works in PC (sacrifice numerous dropshis if need be, reliable teamates and a limited number of albeit powerful AV ) wont work as well in a pub (carefully selecting targets, dropship survivability takes priority over points haul, multiple low to high level AV, little team support), and what works in a pub is nowhere near effective enough for PC flying. DONT TELL ME HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE!!! The more, stronger AV is fielded, the more inclined I am deploy again and again again. But, I dont play to win, I play to blow stuff up. Nothing beats flying solo against a full squad of tryhard AVers "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
DUST Fiend 16849	Posted - 2015.05.06 19:30:00 - [7] - Quote Yet the flip side has also happened at one point or the other where all vehicles were basically just paper waiting to be set on fire. The difficult part from a design decision is where to take it. Do we go your route, and stick with the more classic CoD style vehicles: cheap (read: free) and solo'd by anyone. Or do we make them expensive force multipliers, requiring a dedicated task force to deter any and all vehicle threats? I think right now we're trying to find that middle ground. If you want the CoD style gameplay then either vehicle cost has to go WAY down or AV cost has to go WAY up, to help justify the 1vs1 mentality. As I've stated, AV could still use some small buffs, but without having all the vehicles in we're just going to keep on going in circles trying to balance something that's only half done. "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
DUST Fiend 16854	Posted - 2015.05.06 21:20:00 - [8] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: I love how people always cry for a respec rather than crying for a buff. That is the sound of a FoTM chaser, not a dedicated ADS pilot. Dedicated ADS pilots are basically just people who REALLY hate themselves Getting solo'd by swarms that follow literally over halfway across most maps just because you waited an extra .03 seconds to land another shot on a vehicle is pretty lame, but it's part of the game. Real AVers get kills, and then Sorya's come to the forums and to CCP and whine that vehicles can't ever be killed by anything ever. "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
DUST Fiend 16861	Posted - 2015.05.07 00:52:00 - [9] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Tank hunting was my favorite part of being a pilot before the Missile RoF nerf and Swarm buffs. If you can give me back the ability to save my team mates from tanks, I may just have to respec again. Also, while you're at it, could the problem of the side guns only hitting the Drop ship while aimed forward be addressed? That geometry issue makes it very hard to focus fire on a single target. You can still tank hunt , I do it and is one of the reasons that I use ADS's , I don't have to worry about some random just jumping into my vehicle shooting all the ammo out of my turrets ( because we don't have a kick feature ) and just jumping out at the first sign of trouble ... I kill HAV's easily because I know how to hover and I do it right out of their LOS because I know how vehicle mechanics work from my numerous respec's ... I tried everything so I won't get mad when I die from some supposed fluke $h!t and so I know how things actually work , shame that others don't do the same instead of buying 4 and 5 BPO's but that's another story , ADS's are fine .. even v.s. swarms because with an AB you can out run them but it seems that no one tries so you get a ton of complaints . It was easy mode the way that it was before so all of you asking to be reverted , shows how your lacking in your flight skills because you can surely make due with the way things are right now if you know what your doing . Step up your flight game people . Actually it sounds more like you're going against not so dedicated tankers. Try taking out a hardened rep maddy, or a bricked Gunny with even a single AV player in it. Posts like this reek of hyperbole and without any evidence to back it up lead more experienced pilots to feel you're either A.) lying or B.) fighting MLT / STD tanks. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy popping tanks as much as the next guy, but the only tanks I typically pop are very poorly piloted ones. A well piloted tank with an AV driver or gunner is the literal hard counter to any and all dropships, forcing them to hug the sky or the outskirts of the battle. I am possibly the worst tanker in DUST and while I've easily lost 50 million in tanks by now, not a SINGLE one has been from an ADS. Perhaps it's because of how well I understand flying but it is SO easy to disrupt their LOS and force them to spin back around as you nos beneath them, move back, then forward and to the side. Just that simple motion will cause the pilot to have to readjust so much that by the time he has damage applying to you again, you're at full, and all the AV on your team knows he's there. "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
DUST Fiend 16870	Posted - 2015.05.07 03:45:00 - [10] - Quote WeapondigitX V7 wrote: Increasing throw distance of all AV grenades and increasing the speed of grenade throwing animations, and creating a breach swarm launcher that takes 3 seconds to lock on, fires 1 shot with 12 missiles, then spends roughly 3 seconds reloading. That would help AV players. The thing though is that AV doesn't need a whole ton of help, just a few nudges in the right direction. I'm all for upping throw distance on AV nades, maybe even a tiny buff to how quickly they're thrown, but the swarm launcher seems pointless and likely OP as all hell. Someone in another thread had an idea for an AV Mass Driver that shot weaker AV grenades. Something like that, I could get behind. So long as the homing wasn't too aggressive, at least "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF

DUST Fiend 16870	Posted - 2015.05.07 03:48:00 - [11] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: WeapondigitX V7 wrote: Increasing throw distance of all AV grenades and increasing the speed of grenade throwing animations, and creating a breach swarm launcher that takes 3 seconds to lock on, fires 1 shot with 12 missiles, then spends roughly 3 seconds reloading. That would help AV players. The thing though is that AV doesn't need a whole ton of help, just a few nudges in the right direction. I'm all for upping throw distance on AV nades, maybe even a tiny buff to how quickly they're thrown, but the swarm launcher seems pointless and likely OP as all hell. Someone in another thread had an idea for an AV Mass Driver that shot weaker AV grenades. Something like that, I could get behind. So long as the homing wasn't too aggressive, at least How are you not in a Corporation at all? That keeps bugging me. I'm not sure that's supposed to be possible. I'm a solo player who corp hops and never goes into corp chat. It's easier not paying taxes and not disappointing people lol "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF
DUST Fiend 16871	Posted - 2015.05.07 03:54:00 - [12] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: WeapondigitX V7 wrote: Increasing throw distance of all AV grenades and increasing the speed of grenade throwing animations, and creating a breach swarm launcher that takes 3 seconds to lock on, fires 1 shot with 12 missiles, then spends roughly 3 seconds reloading. That would help AV players. The thing though is that AV doesn't need a whole ton of help, just a few nudges in the right direction. I'm all for upping throw distance on AV nades, maybe even a tiny buff to how quickly they're thrown, but the swarm launcher seems pointless and likely OP as all hell. Someone in another thread had an idea for an AV Mass Driver that shot weaker AV grenades. Something like that, I could get behind. So long as the homing wasn't too aggressive, at least How are you not in a Corporation at all? That keeps bugging me. I'm not sure that's supposed to be possible. He is. It's just hidden on the forums. Was in Molon Labe up until 16 days ago. Now is in Sinq Laison Gendarmes. Unless you mean Player Corporaiton in which case..... yeah kind of iffy. I don't even know how to pronounce that corp lmfao. VIVA LA SINQ LAISON GENDARMES!!!! "When in doubt, dropship out" If you see me, bring AV to collect ISK DUST STUFF

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